Report 1133
Report #1133 Skillset: Aeonics Skill: Mindclock Org: Sentinels Status: Completed Nov 2016 Furies' Decision: Solution 3. Problem: Mindclock currently gives a chance of "shrugging" the aeon affliction when given. Most sources of aeon require two attacks, making mindclock both stronger, and more impactful than most shrugging skills. This report aims to change mindclock to keep utility but fix the impact on aeon. 0 R: 0 Solution #1: Change Mindclock to be an active skill that can remove truetime from a target. 0 R: 0 Solution #2: Change Mindclock to act as an extra quicksilver, it would take 3 basic aeon hits to cause aeon, then it would be stripped and have to be put back up. As well, change Mindclock to be a 4 second equilibrium cost, with Aeonics users having a reduced 3 second equilibrium should the Crystal Spire be constructed. 0 R: 0 Solution #3: Change mindclock to be an automatically refreshing defence that applies a second layer of quicksilver every 20 seconds (15 if construct is active and user already has mindclock). The refresh cooldown will apply smartly, meaning after it has been stripped. The time can be adjusted. Player Comments: ---on 11/12 @ 20:47 writes: No support for sol 1 - truetime is currently needed to combat institute, giving them a way to remove truetime forces people to spam violet/kether to remove rubies, because if they get into the aeon/shatterplex combo, they'll be unable to cure out before timequake. It's too strong. Sol 3 seems severely nerfed. I think sol 2 is the best of these. ---on 11/12 @ 20:51 writes: Solution 2 only. Truetime is already very key when fighting aeon users and it already lasts a finite amount of time ---on 11/13 @ 01:22 writes: I think the largest problem with mindclock isn't necessarily that it resists aeon (it can be worked around with enough time), but the rng aspect of it. If it was more predictable, I think there wouldn't be much problem. In this, Solution 2 is the most simple, though would be a significant nerf in long combats. If Solution 2 is implemented, I think the eq should be lowered (either base, or through the Crystalspire construct). This would make reupping it mid-combat more tenable, otherwise there could easily be situations where it does very little. ---on 11/13 @ 01:34 writes: For Solution 1, there's two currently outstanding issues with the Shatterplex->Timequake combo. In an optimal scenario, if the Institute gets the timing right and chooses the correct Malefact option, they kill in 4s, if they choose the wrong option, the target escapes in 3 actions. With amnesiacloud, it allows the Institute to need malefactgem. With truetime, unless the Institute has 5 balance bonus (usually requiring artie candy), then there's the possibility that the target can get 4 actions to escape a kill even if the Institute does everything correctly. A truetime strip would solve the latter, while removing amnesiacloud would solve the former. Then the current malefactgem->shatterplex->timequake setup that's been balanced around can function without other interference. ---on 11/13 @ 07:28 writes: My preference is for solution 2 because it's adding something but keeps it inline with the type of ability it is currently. I think there should be a cooldown to put it back up (like vitality) to prevent people from being able to entirely turtle against aeon attacks through the use of mindclock and quicksilver. ---on 11/13 @ 07:45 writes: I've taken Shedrin's comments into account for making Solution 2 more manageable since it is our construct ability. The balance has been changed from 6 seconds to 4, with Aeonics users having the balance reduced to 3 seconds if the construct is raised. ---on 11/13 @ 14:47 writes: I've heard from several people in Hallifax that the circumstances of this report are a little underhanded and shady. Tremula, can you delete the report until further discussion can take place with members of Hallifax? I don't think mindclock is such a pressing issue that it needs to be reported this month if at all. ---on 11/13 @ 16:17 writes: I am not sure any of these solutions need to be made and in listening to active Hallifax combatants I am under the impression that little consultation was made with them on the report. ---on 11/13 @ 19:40 writes: Support for solution 2 ---on 11/13 @ 20:34 writes: Consensus is a good thing to have for changes but this report should succeed and fail on its own merits not its context. Realistically there are another 2 weeks of review time for this report and so far I haven't seen any comments outside of Shedrin's comment noting that sol. 2 would be a nerf for long fights that are in any way against the substance of this report. Speaking of Shedrin's concerns, what if mindclock was an automatically refreshing defense that granted a second layer of quicksilver every x seconds (just to spitball I'm thinking 15 seconds for aeonics users and 20s for construct users) the cooldown should fire when it actually blocks aeon so it should not allow aeon immunity with poor timing. This would take the RNG out the ability ensuring that it always helps you against Aeon, but also stopping RNG from potentially denying an aeon-attacker repeatedly, the numbers will need to be adjusted of course. ---on 11/13 @ 20:43 writes: @Wobou interesting solution fix...I'd support that so the user can focus on other things than maintaining a balance costing defense midbattle. Just a matter of coding it ---on 11/13 @ 23:58 writes: Yeah I support Wobou's idea. Solution 3 is really weak. Solution 2 would be a severe nerf in that it will really only prevent one application of aeon for each engagement and then that would be it. Nobody is going to spend 4s of equilibrium to try to put it back up mid-fight. Solution 1 changes the skill from a defensive mechanic to an offensive mechanic, mostly for Institute. Construct users would have very little use for it. ---on 11/14 @ 05:26 writes: To note, with Report 1293 being made active as well, the passive shrugging to about half all physical afflictions AND Aeon shrugging from Mindclock does seem fairly unbalanced, so something has to give with both being present ---on 11/14 @ 05:29 writes: And the ability to shrug aeon is by far the more problematic given the priority of that affliction towards successful combat strategies both solo and especially in groups. ---on 11/14 @ 20:15 writes: Solution 3 has been changed to Wobou's suggestion. ---on 11/14 @ 20:18 writes: Agree with Synkarin on sol 1. Sol 3 seems more reasonable. ---on 11/14 @ 20:18 writes: To Synkarin's comment, there was some confusion and the ideas didn't get out to everyone before the report was made which I'll take the blame for. Hopefully that's been addressed and I think the report can continue. I like Wobou's idea here, and it solves the rng issue. ---on 11/14 @ 20:23 writes: Support Wobou's idea. ---on 11/15 @ 02:23 writes: Support for the Wobou-Solution 3. ---on 11/17 @ 14:48 writes: Some tweaked numbers for consideration on Sol3: 20s if Construct only, 15s for Aeonics only, and 10s for Aeonics + Construct. ---on 11/19 @ 06:27 writes: I think these numbers need to be stretched out a bit. There isn't really a difference between 10s and 15s. It takes 9s to put up aeon, and if they cure, at 12s they'll hit quicksilver again and mindclock is now back up. I think we probably need do double those numbers. ---on 11/19 @ 06:29 writes: I didn't specify this before but I would recommend that mindclock proc before quicksilver rather than after. If it procs after quicksilver then the process of aeoning a mindclock user becomes strip quicksilver -> strip mindclock -> strip quicksilver -> actually aeon. If it procs before quicksilver then the process becomes strip mindclock -> strip quicksilver -> aeon which is still a distinct advantage for mindclock vs. others but isn't quite so punishing for the attacker. It should give a distinct message so that the aeoner can adjust and try to time the mindclock. Regarding Shedrin's numbers, 10s seems low to me but I'm not sure if I know the current mindclock shrug rate to compare it. If my suggestion is accepted and mindclock procs before quicksilver then 10s would mean that after aeoning an aeonics user that it will have reset by the next attempt (since it will have taken 3 attempts to aeon them at around ~3.5s balance each). ---on 11/19 @ 06:52 writes: I agree with Synkarin and Wobou's current assessment. The current suggestion is arguably more of a buff than a downgrade considering that aeon is about a 3s balance. You'll be able to get exactly 1 aeon in before mindclock and quicksilver comes up again. With that said, I still think solution 2 is the besy way to go with this in mind. ---on 11/19 @ 16:26 writes: I didn't consider, but was assuming mindclock would be stripped first. For solo aeon, aeon reliant strategies generally have less need to spam it, and instead time it for a combo. Reliable mindclock helps avoid this. In groups, the same consistency can ensure allies can followup, and higher aeon spam can potentially get through the defense much quicker. Though in the case of no followup with low amount of aeon users, it could be stronger, but that's also a tactical failure. For reference, mindclock with Construct is very significant. Just ran a quick test, it blocked 61/100 aeons. ---on 11/20 @ 23:55 writes: I just realised that mindclock can resist the quicksilver stripping aspect of aeon. Maybe we can just start with removing that first. ---on 11/25 @ 03:28 writes: I first thought the solutions were all very strong, but upon reading the comments, I agree that solution 2 or 3 is the way to go. 20s for construct or aeonics only, and 15s for both seems reasonable to me. Solution 2 gives a bigger burden on active usage, with the possibility of pretty much becoming immune to aeon by spamming timeclock ala reflection spamming if needed, though it's decidedly more niche than reflections. I'll probably lean towards solution 3.